How To Navigate Consent

Man and woman sharing an intimate moment in bed and smiling at each other

The idea of consent is not a new one. Since I was in high school in the 90s (and friends had similar in the 70s and 80s) we had lessons like “Just Say No” or “No Means No”. Even the safe sex messages “If It’s Not On, It’s Not On” dealt with consenting to safe sex, so it’s not like the lesson itself is new, but the way we are beginning to understand it and amend it to make it clear is a bit of a shift, and it’s a little confusing for some people.

The thing is, though, it’s actually not that confusing and, to be honest, I believe a lot of the confusion has come from certain members of society being deliberately obtuse about it all. But if you happen to be one of those “What does it all even mean now” people, let me explain it a little more clearly, and hopefully you’ll see it’s nothing new or weird, it won’t stop you from being able to talk to people or have sex with them, it will just make sure that every sexual experience you have is as good for you as it is for the person you’re having sex with, and that everyone is 100% on board with everything that happens. And surely that’s a good thing!

No Means No and Yes means Yes

This is still the case. If someone says no, then you must respect that. Anything else after that falls into the category of assault. The problem with just using “no means no” as the guide is that it really doesn’t take into account all the other things that actually mean no, but might not necessarily sound like a no, which is where the new phrase “Only Yes Means Yes” or “Enthusiastic Consent” comes in to play.

So what is “enthusiastic consent”? Well, it’s exactly what it means. Enthusiastic, happy, excited, breathless, omg yes please let’s do this! This means that anything other than that needs to be taken as a no.

For example an “um” is a no. A “I don’t know” is a no. A hesitation, a stiffening of body language, a slurred drunken sentence, no words because they’re too drunk or high, ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN ENTHUSIASTIC YES IS A NO.

And when I say it’s a no I mean it. It’s not a “convince me” or a challenge for that notch on your bedpost. It is a no.

It doesn’t matter if you’ve had sex with them before. It doesn’t matter that you did any sort of act with them previously, even within that same playtime. Consent is fluid and continual and what was yes yesterday is perfectly okay to be a no today and vice versa.

“Oh, but what if they say something I take as a no and they really meant yes we won’t get to play at all!”

Um… No, that’s not how it works. If it’s a yes, and you stop because you think it’s a no, first of all that’s a bloody brilliant sign to them of how trustworthy and aware of their comfort and safety you are, and secondly they’ll be like “what are you stopping for? I meant yes! Please!” And there’s your enthusiastic consent.

And if it does end up stopping play, well there are worse things in this world to happen and it’s a sign you might need to communicate a little better, and it’s STILL better than assaulting someone because you didn’t listen or take in their consent properly.

Consent Requires Fluid Communication

The thing is, and it’s something I say in almost every article I write, the most important part of sex is communication. Regardless of whether it’s your partner of 30 years or the one night stand you hooked up with online, communication is key.

Fluid communication means asking what they like and don’t like and checking in throughout play. When I say “checking in throughout play” I don’t mean stopping, sitting up with a clipboard and getting them to fill out a survey… It can be as simple as running a hand over their body and whispering “do you like this?” Or putting their hand on top of yours and saying “Show me where you like to be touched” these things are sexy as fuck while also showing your partner you’re aware of their comfort and needs, and allowing them to help guide the play.

Fluid communication means they can change their minds during play as many times as they like. Because while an “um” should be taken as a no, it is perfectly okay for them to later say “hey I want to try that thing now” just as it is perfectly okay for them to have said yes to something and halfway through realise it’s not something they like and withdraw that consent, and you must stop.

Moving On From A No

One thing I should make really clear is that while yes means yes and no means no, it doesn’t necessarily mean yes to everything or no to everything and, again, this is where communication comes in. He said no to pegging, but that doesn’t mean he’s saying no to oral sex. She said no to nipple sucking, but it doesn’t mean she doesn’t want to have sex… COMMUNICATION!!! It’s really not rocket science.

They say no, you stop doing that particular thing… But it is okay to ask them what you can do instead.

If they come back with “actually I just want to stop everything now” then sure. You need to stop. But more than likely it’s one or two specific acts they’re not into, but are happy to do other things.

COMMUNICATION!!

It is fluid. That means it is a constantly moving and changing thing. That doesn’t make someone fickle or dishonest it’s just personal choice. Yesterday you had chicken for dinner, but tonight you want beef. Doesn’t mean you hate chicken and will never eat chicken again… It just means you don’t want it right now, and if you got served chicken when you wanted beef and were told “hey it’s all just meat, and you ate it yesterday what’s your problem?” well, I’m gonna guess you’d be a little bit shitty… Or what if you decide to order something you’d not tried before because it sounds amazing on the menu… But a couple of bites in and you realise it’s a bit gross and you don’t like it, so you push the plate away… And the waiter comes up and gets really cross at you. “But you ordered it! You must want it! Eat it!!” and even picks up the fork to tries to force feed you… How would you feel about that?

Now take that in the context of sex and the personal space of your body, safety, and comfort… You’d feel more than a little bit shitty if someone ignored that, just because you’d thought you might like it and decided you didn’t. That is what fluid, continual consent means.

That’s it.

Take Your Compass With You

Navigating consent is not a hard road. It’s not a blind adventure into the unknown without a map. It’s the best, safest way to adventure with anyone. It promotes healthy communication, enjoyable experiences, and safe, sane, and consensual sex for all people, in all situations and of all sexual proclivities. Enthusiastic consent is your map, not just your destination, meaning take each yes as a step and each no as a stop and reassess the direction you are both going. The better you get at it, the more fluid and natural it will become and the more people will want to spend time with you. It’s a good thing! A positive thing! It’s something that will assure you and your partners of an excellent time and a respectful one.

Even if it’s way dirty as fuck!

72 comments

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Lexecutie
More than a month ago

OK, I've found a video on YouTube that explains this perfectly :Tea of consent.

;)
- AMM.Editor
  More than a month ago
  
  Yes we published that here back in 2016 - Informed Consent: What you need to know!
Reply
GirlFever
More than a month ago

I agree with this but it would be nice to hear the ladies opinion on this when the scene is set in a adventerous setting...

E.g. Outdoor sex
Let me set the scene. So you're hooking up in the car, both people are touching eachother everywhere then one says. "hey, lets have sex in the park!!" and the other responds with a cheeky laught "haha omg no! What if people see us!?". Don't you think it's OK for the first person to suggest "cmon that's part of the thrill - it will be so hot". If it's no the second time I wouldn't pursue it again just ask say. "Ahh ok well if u wanna get to next base let me know where you feel comfortable doing it otherwise we can simply chat or do something else xo". ^.^

So what I'm asking is, can you read the first no in this context as the person being a bit shy and coy? The chuckle and both ppl being into eachother is what would make me think it's fine to try to sell the idea.

So what are your thoughts?

I want to mention that this has happened in my teens, concent was given the second time and we had so much amazing fun. The girl actually wanted to do it again next week and I was more shy then her then. But I guess it could arguably have ended badly.
- DeliciousEva
  More than a month ago
  
  I think the big difference is communication versus coercion.
  It's perfectly okay to discuss why someone doesn't want to do something and part of communicating is body language and reading the room.
  
  Being unsure about trying something new is a great way to open up discussion as long as that's what it is... A discussion. Not one person trying to convince the other to do something they're uncomfortable with.
- KinkyGirl101
  More than a month ago
  
  @DeliciousEva you beat me to it. Coercion is definitely the key here. Like a guy takes a girl on a date, they go somewhere private and he wants sex. She says no and he says "that's not fair I bought dinner" or something similar. Or women who stay in abusive relationships because the guy threatens her or the children. If one partner feels that they've been pressured into a making a decision which they - in their gut - didn't want to make, then it's not consensual.
- allinmymind
  More than a month ago
  
  There are a lot of guys on here trying to find a replacement to that memory of that chick that did whatever. You know the saying lightening doesn't strike twice.
- GirlFever
  More than a month ago
  
  Thanks for the input everyone.
  @allinmymind what you said could be true but I'm curious why you posted it on my topic? Are you trying to say that I'm chasing a ghost?
Reply
allinmymind
More than a month ago

You lost me at 70s, it was definitely a different time, and those people are kidding you along or weren't there.
Reply
FiftyOneShades
More than a month ago

I woke up this morning with a clearer picture about some of the problems I have with the concept of EC as it's being commonly presented and in this article.

It places all the responsibility on the initiator, and none on the passive partner.

If we want to stop the occurrence of unwanted sex due to poor communication, let's also put some time and effort into teaching people to be clear about what they do and don't want.

There should be at least some discussion about how to say no clearly and unambiguously on the part of the passive partner so as not to lead to situations where consent is unclear.

For example, to the passive partner who is unsure about how they feel, tell the initiator, something like "hang on a minute, I'm not sure how I feel about this, let's just take a break and talk for a while".

Or "Hey I'm sorry but I'm just not into this, let's just stop for a while"

In other words teach BOTH parties to communicate, not just the initiator.

With respect to the OP's assertion that some people are being deliberately obtuse, I'd say think again. Perhaps it seems like that to you, but to assume that is to do a disservice to people with a different points of view. Don't assume that everyone or anyone is being deliberately obtuse. This is an Ad Hominem questioning of people's motives and it's unfair to assume this when EC is an emotional and recent topic that many people are trying to get their heads around or may not completely understand. It is also unfair to attack people who disagree. It is worth researching Ad Hominem for more on what I mean by this.

"For example an “um” is a no."

I disagree. An "um"" is an "um". it should elicit the obvious response "Um what? Is everything ok? What's going on?" A check to see where your partner's at.

'An “I don’t know” is a no.'

No it's not. It's an "I don't know". Again the appropriate action is to ask what they mean by that, are they into this or not? Time to stop and talk to them about it. If they're not completely into it, then it's probably best to call it off. It's no fun for anyone if it's not mutual.

"A hesitation, a stiffening of body language" are signs to stop and ask what's going on, are they into this or not? Take the time to find out.

"a slurred drunken sentence, no words because they’re too drunk or high" are signs that they're too far gone to give consent. Get them home safely.

I will continue with an example of why the communication of consent is important for both parties, not just the initiator in my next post.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  My main problem with EC as it is presented is that it places all the responsibility of communication on the initiator and none of it on the passive party.
  
  For simplicity I will refer to the initiator as the man & the passive partner as the woman.
  
  If we're pushing this concept of EC, and want to reduce sexual assault due to miscommunication, then surely we should also be teaching young women their part in the equation: how to clearly communicate where they're at with their partner. Teach them that they don't need to wait for their partner to ask before saying no, and teach them how to say no clearly and unambiguously so their partner is in no doubt as to how she feels.
  
  Communication: it's a two way street.
  
  To focus only on teaching guys to communicate without any focus on teaching women how to communicate whether or not they consent is counter productive. We all know that no means no, so if a woman does not consent, what is stopping her from saying so? It's not fair to send a man to jail because he went ahead and had sex with a woman who gave every sign that she wanted it, or failed to communicate the simple fact that she didn't want it. Are we to believe that women are simple, helpless creatures who lack the ability to clearly say they don't want to do something?
  
  How hard is it for a woman to get into bed with a man and say "look I just want cuddles tonight, I don't want to have sex" or "Hey slow down, I'm not ready for that just yet".
  
  That's my problem with EC. It places all the responsibility on the man & none on the woman.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  A fictional pegging example.
  
  Suppose I met a hot lady in a bar. I'm attracted to her and she suggestively invites me back to her place.
  
  We take a taxi back and she kisses me. When we get to her place she leads me to the bedroom and strips off my clothes before kissing me and going down on me getting me hard. She pushes me onto the bed and climbs astride me. We fuck and she brings me to orgasm.
  
  Did she sexually assault me? Can I now call the police and charge her with rape because I did not give my Enthusiastic Consent? Does she deserve jail time? Is she a criminal who should be locked up?
  
  Now suppose she tells me to lie there, goes into the bathroom and reappears wearing a strap-on dildo. I'm not really into this, but say nothing. She climbs on top of me, kisses me all over and sucks me, getting me hard again. She then instructs me to lie on my tummy and starts applying lube to my anus. I'm really not sure about this, but I say nothing. She lifts up my hips so I'm on all fours, and gently guides the dildo inside me before starting to thrust away until she gets herself off on it.
  
  This is painful and unpleasant for me, but I just allow her to do it without speaking up, and afterwards I realise I'm bleeding.
  
  Has this woman raped me?
  
  On the one hand, I did not give her my Enthusiastic Consent, so perhaps this makes her a rapist who deserves jail time, and if I understand the idea behind EC, then she should go to jail.
  
  But I had multiple opportunities to say something and didn't. When she first appeared with the strap on I could have said "Hey you look cute in that, but it's really not my thing, would you mind taking it off?"
  
  When she climbed aside me, wearing it, I could have said "Look I like kissing you, but I'm not comfortable with that dildo".
  
  When she turned me around and started applying lube I could have told her to stop at that point. Maybe she wasn't asking for my consent, but there was nothing stopping me from communicating my lack of consent.
  
  When she first started to slide it in, I could have easily slipped away and said "Wohhh, hold it, I'm not ready for this!"
  
  When she started to fuck me with her toy, I could have, at any time, said "Wait a minute, STOP!"
  
  It's not that hard to communicate consent, so why put all the burden of communication on the man?
  
  Let's also educate young men and women how to clearly communicate their consent, or lack of it.
- DeliciousEva
  More than a month ago
  
  This whole two essay long comment shows me you DO understand it.
  And are being deliberately obtuse.
  EC goes both ways.
  This is a piece talking about what it is. I have written other other articles on how to give it and how to say no.
  There are word limits and constraints as to how many topics and ideas go into a piece. This is purely about the term and what it means.
  That you're so angry about someone trying to make the world a better and more respectful place is really weird.
  Your pegging example is a bit sad. As in sadly familiar of many women's experiences. They didn't want to do it. They didn't like it. They felt uncomfortable. And their partner didn't check in, ask, do anything to make them comfortable or know they were enjoying the experience and afterwards there is deep concern that they haven't been treated right. And the other person goes merrily on their way having no idea that they have made the other person feel that way.
  No I don't think that particular instance is rape. Or jailable. But it is unpleasant and can lead to a whole lot of shit in the head of the person who felt uncomfortable.
  But if both parties are aware of, and understand EC, one little "hey do you want me to peg you" and one "I'm not sure let's do something else first" makes all the difference.
  
  Nowhere is this piece gendered to say this is all men or all women. I have made examples very clearly male and female.
  Because EC is for everyone.
  
  That's the last comment I'm making on this piece and I'm only responding to you again because we've had a "friendship" in the past which I think deserves a small bit of bashing my head once more against the brick wall.
  
  But enough now.
  
  Fuck people who want to fuck you. And fuck them the way they'd like.
  
  That's all. x
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Dear Eva,
  
  "This whole two essay long comment shows me you DO understand it. And are being deliberately obtuse."
  
  OK, I understand that you think that I'm being deliberately obtuse, but I'm not. No matter how strongly you believe it's the case, I promise to you I am not. I have been absolutely genuine about this, and I do urge you to look up Ad Hominem - one link here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem - to quote from it, it is...
  
  "...a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."
  
  In this case you are attacking my motive as being deliberately obtuse, when it is not in fact the case.
  
  I swear to you on my life, Eva, as one who has corresponded with you privately, that I am not and have not been deliberately obtuse with you. Obtuse maybe. That's for you and others to judge, but deliberately? Absolutely not.
  
  I find discussions work better for me when I take what people have to say at face value without questioning their motives, unless I'm dealing with an obvious troll. Real trolls will seldom make a good argument or make an effort to understand the other person's side.
  
  While EC has a chance to do good in the world, it could also be abused in some ways, hence my essays. This isn't something I've just decided to write about after seeing your article, and please don't think I've singled you out to bash your opinions or undermine your position as one of the AMM sexperts. I absolutely respect what you write and have voiced my concerns here because I feel it's important that they're heard, and despite the fact that I regard you as a friend. Friends can differ.
  
  Enthusiastic Consent and Yes means Yes are pretty new concepts to society at large, and some debate about them is natural and healthy in order to iron out the bugs.
  
  My main point of concern is that EC places too much emphasis on the initiator continually asking for consent, and not enough on the passive partner speaking up for him or herself.
  
  While some men* may read about EC and take it on board, there are many men* who won't even hear about it.
  
  Hence women* should also be taught to speak up and say no when they don't feel comfortable so it's not all on the man* to determine the consent situation, as part and parcel of YMY and EC. I do acknowledge that you have written articles about this, would you mind doing one more reply with links to them? It could be important for people to see if they missed them on previous occasion.
  
  "EC goes both ways."
  
  Absolutely.
  
  "This is a piece talking about what it is. I have written other other articles on how to give it and how to say no."
  
  OK, apologies I haven't read them yet - I only look at the blog sporadically.
  
  "There are word limits and constraints as to how many topics and ideas go into a piece. This is purely about the term and what it means."
  
  I totally understand that and get your point, I ran into word limits on my first reply to you, otherwise it would have been much longer!
  
  "That you're so angry about someone trying to make the world a better and more respectful place is really weird."
  
  Actually I'm not angry. Do I come across that way? I'm concerned about the implications as discussed in my essays. I recognize that you're trying to make the world a better place, and hope you can recognize the same in me, even if we differ in some aspects of this and other topics.
  
  "Your pegging example is a bit sad. As in sadly familiar of many women's experiences. They didn't want to do it. They didn't like it. They felt uncomfortable. And their partner didn't check in, ask, do anything to make them comfortable or know they were enjoying the experience and afterwards there is deep concern that they haven't been treated right. And the other person goes merrily on their way having no idea that they have made the other person feel that way."
  
  That really is sad. If enough men absorb the lesson of EC, perhaps there can be a change in that.
  
  The other way it can be changed is by women taking more control of their own consent. In my pegging example, I listed several points in which I could have said something but didn't. And even though you're right that many male partners may fail to check in with their partners, and that's sad and could be improved; it could still be rectified by women* speaking up and making their lack of consent clear.
  
  "No I don't think that particular instance is rape. Or jailable. But it is unpleasant and can lead to a whole lot of shit in the head of the person who felt uncomfortable."
  
  True.
  
  "But if both parties are aware of, and understand EC, one little 'hey do you want me to peg you' and one 'I'm not sure let's do something else first' makes all the difference."
  
  Absolutely true.
  
  "Nowhere is this piece gendered to say this is all men or all women. I have made examples very clearly male and female."
  
  Agreed.
  
  "Because EC is for everyone."
  
  Agreed.
  
  "That's the last comment I'm making on this piece and I'm only responding to you again because we've had a "friendship" in the past which I think deserves a small bit of bashing my head once more against the brick wall."
  
  I'm sorry you feel that way. This is a sensitive subject, and I've been speaking my truth. I'm sorry if what I've written has caused you to feel that way as I do value you and the messages we have exchanged. :(
  
  "But enough now. Fuck people who want to fuck you. And fuck them the way they'd like."
  
  I couldn't agree more.
  
  "That's all. x"
  
  Thank you for your time, I really do appreciate it and all the best to you always.
  
  * Here I'm using women, as the passive partner and men as the initiator for simplicity, but obviously genders can change on a case by case basis.
- KinkyGirl101
  More than a month ago
  
  My final two cents worth is that it's often not that easy for a woman to say no. And I deliberately mention this power dynamic because although I know men are also the victims of sexual assault (from both women & men) this relates specifically to women. Men are bigger, women often feel submissive in a male female dynamic, men sometimes coerce, men sometimes manipulate - not all men - but some do. Domestic abuse victims would understand this too. So although in an ideal world a woman should be able to speak up and clearly articulate "no thanks" when you're a woman you understand that is totally over simplifying the solution. I've seen too many friends stay in bad relationships, sometimes abusive relationships, because it wasn't easy to speak up.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  @KinkyGirl101 Thanks for your final two cents worth. It is so sad that some women feel like they can't easily communicate their lack of consent. I really wish this wasn't the case, but perhaps a combination of this kind of consent training combined with teaching women how to speak up and voice their non-consent in a way that feels comfortable to them, could do something to ease this problem.
  
  This would be much more difficult when the male partner is using coercion. Much much more difficult.
  
  I'd say to them, don't hang out with guys with whom you feel too intimidated to say no to; or leave them if you're in a relationship with them, but that's an obvious over-simplification.
  
  I'd hate for a woman to feel this way in my company. I know I'm bigger and stronger than most women, so I always do everything I can to put her at ease so she knows she never has to worry about me using this against her. I am so against coercion, but I know as you've said that there are men out there who will bully and coerce women, and some women seem to have a fatal attraction to them. Very sad.
  
  Thanks for keeping your discussion free of attacks. Everything you've said has made a lot of sense and you've opened my eyes to some things.
  
  All the best to you,
  F1S
  x
Reply
FiftyOneShades
More than a month ago

I disagree with the concept of enthusiastic consent. To me this is social engineering.

I may well cop a lot of flack for challenging the politically correct hive mind as there is pressure on anyone who disagrees.

It's too easy for people to assume, "well if you don't believe in enthusiastic constant then you must be a rapist" or "not respect women" or similar sentiments which is why people are scared to voice opposition to the concept.

But even if I'm fighting a losing battle, and even if it means I get subjected to ridicule and false accusations, I strongly feel it is time to draw a line in the sand over this issue.

I absolutely agree that no means no, and would immediately stop the moment I heard a no, or was physically pushed away. Having once been a teenager, I'm also familiar with the hand block and would respect that as a sign to stop.

What is happening in this world now? Who were the social engineers who first decided that this was the way to go, and what about my right to disagree, to not have this prescribed new way of behaving shoved down my throat? What if I do not consent to these new rules?

If no means no, then I say no to the whole idea of enthusiastic consent.
- DeliciousEva
  More than a month ago
  
  Social engineering.
  Righto.
  Forget about comfort and respect.
  It's all the big bad PC bastards coming to take your good time away how dare we.
  
  Thing is... If only one person is having the good time... It's not a good time.
  
  You disagree with enthusiastic consent? So you'd rather a reluctant yes just so you get your end in and damn how the other person actually feels?
  
  Yay. Good times.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  @DeliciousEva How dare I disagree with what Big Brother tells me I must do?
  
  This new push is exactly what Social Engineering is: an attempt to control people's behaviour en masse. And anyone who voices disagreement will face censure and accusations as I just have from you. You've proven my point.
  
  People have been comfortably having sex without this concept for centuries, and just because I refuse to be bullied into this does not mean I don't care about my partner's comfort. To accuse me of that simply because I disagree with Enthusiastic Consent (tm) is exactly what I meant on my previous message.
  
  Anybody who dares disagree will be attacked and slandered in this way, making many people too intimidated to disagree.
  
  Those are extremely unfair, but effective silencing tactics.
  
  For the record I absolutely care if my partner is having a good time. But I do it my way, the way people have done it for centuries, with common sense and paying attention to my partner.
  
  One danger I see if EC becomes law is innocent people being convicted of sexual crimes because they did not meet Big Brother's prescribed way of conducting sexual relations.
  
  Meanwhile the real rapists, the ones who violently assault men and women without any regard for consent will be laughing at the whole thing, glad for the distractions.
  
  There are ways that people can tell if there is true consent, and EC is not the One True Way.
- KinkyGirl101
  More than a month ago
  
  Australia has one of the highest rates of sexual assault in the world. Even scarier is the estimate that 70% of sexual assaults are not reported, that 40% of victims know their assailants and that 1.2million Australian women have experienced some sort of sexual violence by the time they are 15. (All stats from various reputable studies and reports.) How can we not be horrified at those stats.
  
  These statistics tell us that something needs to be done. Perhaps I should say demand something is done. We can't let this continue.
  
  I'm not saying you don't respect your partner's boundaries but how would you explain it to a young adult who asked you the question. I think enthusiastic consent is an easy concept to understand and that anything less than enthusiastic consent should be taken as a no. It might not be a no forever, but at that moment in time, it's a no. I just heard on the radio that UTS students now have to attend a Consent class - good!
  
  And those "real rapists" you refer to are the people who didn't get that "enthusiastic consent" you scoff at - they are not all hardened criminals (remember 40% knew their victims). Perhaps talk to someone who works at a rape crisis centre and get their informed opinion on whether educating men, and women, on consent, enthusiastic or otherwise, might go some way towards reducing the rate of sexual assault in Australia. Because we are failing miserably with what we are currently doing.
- DeliciousEva
  More than a month ago
  
  *Deleted my last comments. The brick wall I was bashing my head against was giving me a headache.
  There's nothing I have to say that's not written in the piece above and I'm not wasting any more free labour on you.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  @KinkyGirl101 First of all, thank you for not making an ad hominem attack on me, for not suggesting that because I dare to disagree I must therefore be a rapist or despicable character.
  
  Thanks also for bringing the research into it, and taking to staff at a rape crises centre about consent is an excellent idea which I'll attempt to follow.
  
  The problem in trying to discuss this is that it's a highly emotional topic, and that emotion can cloud our judgement and ability to hear what the other person's saying.
  
  I do think it's good that consent is being brought up as a topic and if it's in the guise of EC, then better that than nothing.
  
  Here's my problem with it. Suppose you invite home a guy you've been on a date with, or met at a pub.
  
  You've been flirting and there's romance and chemistry in the air. First of all you wouldn't invite him home just as friends, not without making it really clear to him, and that might be a bit odd.
  
  You invite him to your bedroom. Would you do that with a guy you had no sexual interest in?
  
  You throw him on the bed, remove his clothes and kiss him as he kisses you passionately back. After lots of hot kissing you lower yourself onto him and have sex.
  
  Have you committed sexual assault on him by not getting Enthusiastic Consent, and should you be tried and convicted as a rapist?
  
  A large part of our communication is through body language, and if a lady feels uncomfortable at any time with a man's advances she only had to say no, stop, or push him away. It's not rocket science.
  
  If he ignores that and presses on, then we are moving into rape territory. Unless she is too drunk or mentally incapable, there is nothing preventing her from saying no.
  
  I believe that "no means no" is enough. Teach people about that in the conversation about consent.
  
  I will see if I can talk to some people from a rape crisis centre as I would like to get their input on the topic.
  
  I know that you and Eva are only trying to do the right thing, as am I, and I hope you can accept the reasons why I have a problem with EC. There are only so many words one can use in the comments and I could say so much more.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  @DeliciousEva I just read your article and you might be surprised to hear that I agree with most of what you've written. Your last response to me needs a clearer response from me (communication, right?) so here goes.
  
  "Social engineering.
  Righto.
  Forget about comfort and respect."
  
  Absolutely not. The comfort and respect of my partner are absolutely key to me. Perhaps because I already understand and practice respect, I don't feel the need to be preached at as to how I should conduct my own private and personal relations.
  
  "It's all the big bad PC bastards coming to take your good time away how dare we."
  
  Sarcasm rarely helps promote understanding between two people. Is this a good example of communication?
  
  "Thing is... If only one person is having the good time... It's not a good time."
  
  Of course. But EC is not the only way to determine consent. Paying attention to your partner and good communication can be done outside of the EC framework. Checking in with your partner and seeing how they're doing isn't a new concept. It's something I always do anyway.
  
  "You disagree with enthusiastic consent? So you'd rather a reluctant yes just so you get your end in and damn how the other person actually feels?"
  
  No, not at all. The way the other person feels is so richly communicated by body language. Is she kissing me passionately, or does she just seem not that into it? If it's the latter then that's when I'm stopping to check in to ask if anything's wrong. If it is I'll stop. The last thing I want is a reluctant partner.
  
  "Yay. Good times"
  
  Sarcasm noted.
- Lexecutie
  More than a month ago
  
  Have you ever compared the social engineering of EC, to say the social engineering of the witch burnings?
  Reading your lengthy comments I can't help but to notice the conceptual similarities within the focus around women's rights to oppose things.
  Maybe the concept that a women who can say 'no' to a man must be an agent of the devil and will be publicly punished was brought into society many centuries ago, and has lead to this concept EC being needed to be reintroduced to society, now that we've stopped being a primitive society.
  The irony is you act like an intelligent person yet hold to a status quo that is the result of 1000 years of poor social engineering set in motion by primitives.
  Now we'd like to progress and you're upset, about women needing you to increase your awareness of their rights to say no and be respected for it.
  Nobody is on a rapist(witch)hunt, so stop pretending to be a victim in a hypothetical situation.
  Assuming you are actually intelligent, from an advanced culture in a modern time period close to the present, I'll assume you're capable of seeing how backwards your comments are if you are in fact not being obtuse deliberately.
Reply
Polyamerous.BBW
More than a month ago

I met a guy a couple of months ago. I told him our condom rule for anyone outside of my hubby. Our gf etc has to use condoms. I get to his place. Was kinda hot actually. He left door unlocked. I was to come inside. Follow the noise of water to the bedroom. And into the ensuite where I was to watch him shower... Was hot.. After his shower. We played a little on his bed. I told him again that if we were going to have sex we needed a condom. I asked did he have one. He said yes. More fondling/ play. He goes near my pussy with his cock, and again I say I'm meant to use a condom. Its our rule. And he says, ill just slide it up here. I wont put it in..... So he rubs it up amd down my opening. Then slides in. I now have to wait 3 months to get the all clear. Not to mention the shit I got in when I had to tell my hubby I played unprotected :-(
Reply
Trukit
More than a month ago

Good article
My only problem is getting a girl to say yes , to be in a position to say no !
Reply
Hedotoday
More than a month ago

As soon as the NO word comes out, I stop hop up put on what ever clothing I’ve taken off and put the kettle on, sure as shit kills the mood but I’m not going to jail for sex. It’s also kind of amusing when my play date asks what’s wrong and why can’t we just cuddle and kiss or “something”
Mature, immature maybe both but I’m in no doubt that all physical contact is over for the night. I also take the time to explain my reasons for that as well.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Ah see. I dont believe your behaviour is a correct way to respond. It gives negative reedback to the person that they have actually done something wrong by saying no. When infact they have every right to say no to something if they arent comfortable. I once met a Dom who said he was a great Dom... Blah. Blah.
  But told me if I ever used the safe word in play. All play would stop and he would pack up and go home. A sign of a fake Dom. One who knew nothing of respect/ consent and how BDSM or any play for that matter should work.
  No one should ever be arfaid to say no, with the fear of rejection or feeling weak or ashamed. Body language plays a big part in relationships, Socialising and sexual encounters. Maybe consider asking what it is they no longer consent to. Who knows. It may have hurt. But you totally shutting them and yourself down would be a major turn off. And to be honest. Comes across as selfish. ( not saying you are)
- Hedotoday
  More than a month ago
  
  Yep you may well be right in everything you said, but given the way people analyse things days, weeks or months after then may or may not feel that they have been coerced into something they now don’t feel comfortable with, I’ll error massively on the safe side thanks very much.
  Having been accused of breaching a diversity policy at work and losing my job because someone felt offended by a conversation that I had and in her own statement she said there was nothing in it till colleagues told her she should lodge a complaint.
  As a result now once bitten twice shy,
Reply
cowgaluvoldrmen
More than a month ago

I’ve found a guy thinks it’s a challenge if I say no to try and push the boundaries
It’s a lot sexier if a Guy is a gentleman! But that sure is a lost art ! There are a lot of pushy ppl in the world ! They need to read this , and communicate sure is the key
- Lexecutie
  More than a month ago
  
  Lol, or you take the answer, shrug and move on.
  Pretty easy when anything/everything other than her leading you by the hand to her room with a packet of condoms and a bottle of lube is most definitely a "No" and since women don't actively pursue men and expect us to pursue them, but the answer is always "No" until it isn't and she's leading you off to use/reward you.
  Sorry but that's how this article ended up being written, because some men aren't taught by their mums how to understand (???)women, or how everything means no, or how to pursue without pursuing too much, because "NO!"
  Well I say No, you can pursue us or get nowhere to then see them with somebody else, like what we get if we don't pursue you, doggedly, relentlessly, persistent until victory or total defeat.
  Yeah that'll learn ya ;) make you do the awkward advancements and breaking the ice, yeah! And you can hold the door for me ;) yeah! And you can buy me drinks with your pay, YEAH! Wait, I mean No but conditionally yes if you're a perfect lady ;) lol, that'll learn ya ladies.
Reply
Mindfood2
More than a month ago

Such an interesting topic
Thank you Eva..
We live such a busy life
And when it says No means No..
Respect always goes both Ways
And if some people don't know respect
Just walk away...
Follow our own instinct..
Stay safe and enjoy sex
Regards
Reply
Hotwired35
More than a month ago

Yep. Agree entirely. Us folk in the BDSM scene have been onto this for ever. As play escalates a Top or Master will check-in with the Submissive, often eye contact is all it takes so as not to disturb the Sub while they are in Sub-space. When a Sub is restrained and gagged that eye contact can be the most incredible communication experience, like when one glances into the eyes of a woman wearing a veil, when all is said and done - the eyes have it all, that one glance can make a heart skip a beat and take the breath away. Also we use safe-words and sometimes hand gestures as an indication the Top needs to check-in and/or halt play. Sometimes a Sub goes so deep into subspace they are beyond communication, that gets tricky as the Master assumes he can go further, and the Sub will let him. When in doubt the Master or Top will stop , the Sub will slowly come back into our world of illusions and leave the real world behind. Very deep and intense communication follows such scenes and before the next session. The Sub will need/want to inhabit that Subspace again and knows they will be beyond word and gesture, the Top must be very switched on and astute. Communication... I'll give you communication... in spades. The Universe will approve.
- KinkyGirl101
  More than a month ago
  
  Yes! Yes! Yes! The Kink community negotiates at every stage and boundaries are pre-determined and accepted and if a boundary shifts then the play stops or changes. Consent is embedded in all play which is why SSC is a term linked to the BDSM community.
- DeliciousEva
  More than a month ago
  
  So much agreement with this, yes!
  The vanilla world could learn so much about consent and communication from the BSDM community.
  Thanks for your comment!
- Zamboon
  More than a month ago
  
  I need to know more - very intriguing...
- DeliciousEva
  More than a month ago
  
  Zamboon - The core of all BSDM play is SSC which stands for Safe, Sane, and Consensual.
  It's a set of rules and respect that determine consent even when verbal communication might not be possible.
  It really is a fantastic set of rules that means that all play is done within the bounds (no pun intended) of each person's comfort and consent and is stuck to very tightly, even within the context of negotiation.
  
  There are some great bdsm pieces on here written by Ms Knickers... Check them out. You can learn heaps about it all.
- AMM.Editor
  More than a month ago
  
  @Zamboon this is a great starting point: Beginning Your Kink Journey
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Very well said. TRUE Doms and subs know this. ( I unfortunately have met some fake Doms as well. And have given up for the moment because of this)
  Anyykne into true BDSM. Knows this already. Right down to body language
Reply
Kaz888
More than a month ago

Great article, Please forward this to the education dept so they can include it as part of sex Ed at school!
- AMM.Editor
  More than a month ago
  
  Actually Eva has written a book for teenage girls and their parents. I've just added a link in the Editor's comments box.
Reply
KinkyGirl101
More than a month ago

Thanks Eva for another great article. Consent matters and what's sexy is having a partner demonstrating enthusiastic consent. I mean who would want to continue having sex with someone if there was even the most niggling doubt that weren't into it.
Reply
Male39.75
More than a month ago

What a load of leftarded bullshit, something else the leftards are fucking with. Saying no is sometimes a game played so they don't appear too easy especially the first time. These political correct idiots could not fathom the idea that a women says no so that it looks like she put up a little resistance. It shouldnt be like that but some women do feel bad for having sex to quickly and this is how they get around it. With these new rules they also need to educate girls that it is ok to have sex and they shouldnt feel bad for wanting it and going through with their desires. We know this isnt going to happen. This just makes everything unnatural, society shouldnt mess with an experience like that, especially the first time,society is the last think you should be thinking about at that time. And if communication between the sexes is so easy, why do half of all marriages end in divorce. Maybe the feminist leftards should be working on laws to protect men from unwanted kids. Why would they do that, protect a man from something, now that would be a first!
- Yellowhite
  More than a month ago
  
  Bet you get a tonne of dates on here, shame replies like this are not linked to profiles so people can see the real you.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  I find your response immature & totally disappointing I agree that this attitude is a red flag and should be linked to your profile
- Lexecutie
  More than a month ago
  
  We have these things called condoms, that do actually stop unwanted pregnancy.
  It just makes us men take responsibility for our end of things.
  Don't be a fool, wrap your tool.
- Fantasywife
  More than a month ago
  
  Saying no sometimes is a game ... Jesus I am glad you have outed yourself in here ...
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  I totally agree with the idea that blog comments should be linked to profiles. Some guys have profiles that say very little, some are totally misleading - it's in the blog comments that one gets an idea of who they truly are.
  
  Another for the NTBF list, ladies ;-)
- ginjunkie
  More than a month ago
  
  Count your lucky stars that blog comments aren't linked to profiles. Because nobody should touch you with a ten foot pole. Unless it's being rammed up your nose. What's that? No? You don't want that? Don't worry, it will only hurt for a little bit...
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  ginjunkie - you win best comment :-) I wonder if 39.75 is his IQ score.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Ok then you aggressive idiots if no means don't try to convince me or take it as a challenge when is it ok to try again? Do you have to wait for the other person to make that move? With some people that ain't going to happen. That is the only part i disagreed with. So you few peopke are saying women don't say no leading up to the first time with someone so not to appear too easy, sorry if I'm been too politically incorrect for your easily triggered minds. And to that idiot who thinks men are responsible for unwanted pregnancies, wtf is the pill for and if you are in a long term trusted relationship and the women goes off the pill to delibrately get pregnant against the will of the man that should be criminalized, it is related to this consent matter, no discussion on this point at all from you so called intellectuals? Bunch of brainwashed idiots!
- Yellowhite
  More than a month ago
  
  There’s only one person triggered here and we all know who that is.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  You dumb feminists want to give insults instead of discussing my arguments, suppose that's what feminists do when they have no arguement. Wouldn't want to fuck simple minded idiots like you anyway. The laws are too controlling, I've discussed this with both men and women and it's gone too far. And you feminists aren't holding women to a high regard at all if you believe they can't say the actual word no! How do you want to portray women confident and strong minded or weak individuals that can't say no to a mere man.
- southBulahdelah
  More than a month ago
  
  I not a feminist I am a Male reading what you have said and I find it offensive. I have just retired from a career where I spent the best part of it locking up men who did not listen to a women when she said no. Ignoring no isn't just ignorant it is a powertrip. If you want to play games set the ground rules first so there can be no confusion.
  A
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Southwestsyd you may of read what i wrote but it obviously didn't sink in, where did i write that it's ok to have sex if someone says no? Read my arguement and stop siding with the feminists they are wrong on this what is next a contract before you have sex. Read and think for yourself you have been brainwashed by the leftard feminists. Again tell me where i said its ok to go ahead if they say no? You also didn't mention if women should be convicted for not getting consent before going off the pill. Make an arguement don't just say your offended over something i never even said. I didn't know they let snowflakes work in prisons:).
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  This thread is borderline satirical
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Wow you just keep digging yourself in deeper and deeper :-) I don't think you need to worry about any of the women who've replied to your puerile comments being upset that you don't want to fuck them - I suspect they would not touch you with a 10 foot pole.
- southBulahdelah
  More than a month ago
  
  I would like to debate you, but I believe your sciolistic opinions and egocentric arguments complete with your anti-feminist diatribe is beyond debate. You're just a selfish misogynist.
- KinkyGirl101
  More than a month ago
  
  I love the comments on the blog. They are far more revealing than a profile designed to be your "best self". Kinda think you have probably ended up on quite a few block lists as a result of your rant.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  You people are so dumb, you don't want a debate because you leftard feminists can't debate, you aren't use to any resistance so when someone like me comes along you don't know what to do. Do you realise you idiots haven't given one arguement against what i said, you claim your offended and I'm a women hater? Why because i don't agree with you, make an arguement or move along. Just because i don't suck up women's arses don't mean I'm a misogynist. #feministsnosensenoreason.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Southwestsyd so you don't think that these consent laws shouldn't include protection for men who are trusting the women they are with to not stop birth control before telling them. Hmmmmm........ And your not a feminist. And block away if you can't handle someone elses view no loss here! You women think you can control men with sex obviously, you dumb women need to realise most men tell you what you want to hear, they don't actually believe what they are saying. Although i believe southwestsyd is a true snowflake.
- southBulahdelah
  More than a month ago
  
  if only I could debate with you in person, I am sure a lesson in manners would go a long way with you.
- Lexecutie
  More than a month ago
  
  Have you tried saying "No"?
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  I think the reason why no-one is attempting to persuade you is that, the minute they see that A. Your posts are sprinkled with idiotic buzzwords like "leftard" . B. You blame "feminists" for everything. and C. You don't know the difference between "of" and "have", it's obvious that debating with you would be like playing chess with a pigeon - in the end, the pigeon knocks over the pieces, shits on the board and struts around as though it has won. :-)
- KinkyGirl101
  More than a month ago
  
  @Leolady727 you summed it up beautifully lol
  Us "dumb women" don't argue if the argument has no merit, waste of time when we could be hooking up with respectful guys who have read the article and actually understood it rather than gone off on an anti-feminist rant.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Still no arguements plenty of reasons not to and now spelling insults. Maybe southwestsyd or amm or whatever he calls themselves now can explain how ge was actually offended. Another thing these laws have just complicated things without resolving a thing, if you think about intimidation don't you think if a girl is so intimidated she can't say no don't you think that this same imtimidation would result in her saying yes. If you people keep it up we will all be signing contracts infront of JP's before we have sex. What a horrible world we live in, run by the moronic left.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Ooooh, ladeez - I think we've found Blair Cottrell's profile, or perhaps the Pussy-grabber In Chief. ;-)
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Stretchticles i wouldn't get myself in a situation where i would have to say no to a random i didn't want to have sex with. And yes i have said no to 2 girlfriends in the past after exhausting days at work they both wouldn't take no for an answer. Which is totally ok in our leftist society, although it is kind of cute when they want it real bad.
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  Lol. Very interesting read. And NO I'm not a femanist. I do believe men have the right to know if their partner goes off the pill. Thats a dishonest thing if they both previously consented.
  Sounds like you may have got your fingers burnt by your rant over women going off the pill without their partners consent. my daughter bf hated the feel of condoms. Blah blah. And she couldnt take the pill.... And He thought he was infertile... Well guess what. Shes 30 weeks pregnant.
  And I do believe there are both dishonest men AND women out there. ( God I get so many married/ cheating men inboxing me, so I know that)
  And yes, years ago I've seen women play games saying playful "Nos" in flirt. But I think those says are prety much gone. And I definitely would like to think at the start of serious play you would both be on the same page of comunication.
  Shit I was seeing a guy casually. And we all went out to a party. He got totally wasted. He fell asleep on the bed rock hard about to have sex. And there was no way I would do any more. Friends there, said just keep going. And the next day he said you should have kept going....but its respect. And consent.
Reply
Zamboon
More than a month ago

Good article - I liked the waiter analogy - I once said no to a lady who was expecting the full Monty and I left her in a state of half undress - ( she had a personal hygiene problem that became apparent as she got excited and it caused me to gag!) - I got out of there quick smart faking a tummy bug ...

Yes in this day and age I cannot understand guys who try and push it to the limit ignoring the girls signals - is it too much porn/ too much fantasy that all women love being fisted and god knows what else...?

However ladies please do not be too naïve - I agree absolutely - no means no at any point in the act for sure !
But if you've gone home with a guy and you've taken your clothes off you and your conversation has been full of innuendos and smart sexy chat and alcohol and whatever else then you must realise that youve pretty much committed and if you decide no youre going to have a Please explain moment ... unless you realise something bad is about to happen ( as in my case above) and if it does go wrong then afterwards many people on both sides male and female will judge and say " well what was she expecting?"
- Account Closed
  More than a month ago
  
  I had a meet that was, as you say, full of sexy chat, a bit of wine etc. Then we got back to his place and I noticed that he had NOT ONE book in the entire house and, by that time, his small stock of interesting chat was used up. I excused myself and left (still dressed).
- Zamboon
  More than a month ago
  
  Good on you - I love books and I talk too much - apparently...
  A friend went home with a guy after 2 dates and a satisfying play in the car and a few phone calls - his made up bed had 2 teddy bears on the pillow ... that was enough for her - she turned and walked out... how can she compete with a teddy she said later ... lol
Reply
Pleasuremywife2
More than a month ago

A lot of lawyers are going to make a lot of money out of this.
Reply

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No Means No and Yes means Yes

Consent Requires Fluid Communication

Moving On From A No

Take Your Compass With You

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